the two saginaws have the shift boss mounted on the gearbox itself, this makes it a cheaper setup but it transmits vibrations through the leaver. transmission was standard on 396 engines (SS 396) and the shifter was floor mounted whether a console was ordered or not. ). This tag can be found by looking at the side of the transmission, just above the pan. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. He said something about this shifter being spring loaded to make the 1 - 2 shift by just tapping the stick forward (after pushing the clutch pedal in of course). angle on the gear set as opposed to a 45 degree angle found on the M20 and M21 Heat treated components for durability and longer life. Standard Saginaw 3-speed transmission Heavy Duty full synchromesh 3-speed Borg Warner T16 delivered as the standard transmission when the SS 396 series was ordered. This shifter location is a good indication that your car has a Saginaw 3-speed transmission. This kit is made for a shift pattern, with reverse over to the left and down, and should . Muncie 4-speed manual transmission. With the 318 trans first and reverse you are actually moving & shifting a real gear. transmission when the SS 396 series was ordered. of the tail housing. I receive regular training on the most recently released automotive technology. Mine is coming out for a turbo 350. - no switches, Long boss bolt on type w/ TCS switch on 3-4, Short boss bolt on type w/ TCS switch on Another factor that makes the Saginaw transmission so special is its durability. The 3 speed 3.03 was also the heavy duty transmission in 1960s Oldsmobile, Buick and Pontiac cars, with FOMOCO cast into the right side of the case; sourcing parts from competitors was common practice in those days, as Lincoln used GM's Hydra-Matic transmission for years in the early 1950s. The Saginaw transmission featured durability and reliability. Dragsix and lonewolf85: Ok, I'm learning-brief car history on me. Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by cammer427, Feb 21, 2010. Purchased some new shift forks for another 75 and rebuilt the trans. I have a 78 Camaro z28 built 383 stroker, had a th350 in it but was having shifting problems so I just swapped it out for a Saginaw 4 speed,(yes I know I have too much power for a Saginaw) but it's all I have to work with at the moment, got the trans installed, and it didn't want to come out of Reverse, so I realigned the shifter to nuetral and adjusted the shift rods, now it shifts great, but I did notice my Reverse is left and down, isn't it supposed to be left and up? When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The rear yoke will also need to be changed. Exclusive advanced gear shift mechanism design for shorter throw and positive, precise shifts/. Contact Us (810) 238-7611. A retro fit PCV that elemenates the road draft tube might stop the leak any way. Federal law required that the shift pattern be shown. The first speed part I ever purchase was a used Hurst syncro-loc shifter, must not have been the right app. The correct shift boots are almost non existant but I know of someone that will be reproducing them soon. W1025/P1025, P (Muncie) or W (Warner), 1025 It's wierd all the brackets are the same as they were when the previous owner had the tranny in it, don't see why it wouldnt be the same now. saginaw 3 & 4-speed manual transmission parts & rebuild kits. Produced in 2- and 4-wheel-drive versions. Main case casting numbers (when looking at the passenger side these numbers are upside down) 6273262, tail shaft housing casting numbers 3968035, Shifter cover casting numbers GM1 3952646. The Saginaw 4-speed transmission from General Motors is one of the most popular and widely used transmissions in the racing and rodding industry. Sadly when I bought my 66 Impala the guy who had it before me threw a saginaw in it to replace the blown trans.. It sounds like you best bet is to get a later Saginaw with the two groove inpuit shaft and a good floor shift conversion. I always shift to second before stopping and still have it in second when stopped. FITS: 4 SPEED SAGINAW/MUNCIE MANUAL TRANNY SBC/BBC, (4) Saginaw Muncie 4 Speed Transmission Universal Steel Shifter Lever 3 Speed, Leave feedback about your eBay search experience - opens in new window or tab. The M13 was If your transmission case is aluminum, it could be a Saginaw. The regular hole for Saginaw 4-speed, all 3-speeds & automatic Can i put a Muncie 4 speed, Saginaw 4 speed, or a late model . Is that a good idea - and since I would need a mechanic what do you think the job would cost me (repair etc.). In 1967 housing. You can read more about us, here. 425 Pinson Rd Ste M PMB 1028 Forney, TX 75126, We can be reached at contact@carshtuff.com. Also the local Topix forums or facebook will possibly help you locate the needed parts and someone to install them. Consult a professional: If you're still unsure whether your car has a Saginaw 3-speed transmission, you can consult a professional mechanic or transmission specialist. I'll never forget that, when I upgraded to a Hurst it changed to up to the left. The 1969 to 1974 Muncie the month such as P8A01, meaning 1968 (8), January (A) 1st (01). Check the transmission identification tag, look for casting numbers, check the gear shifter location, look for an aluminum casing, or consult a professional. You will also be able to tell the assembly date by the casting number. The Saginaw transmission is a manual trans manufactured by GM through the time period of the 1960s to the 1980s. 3-speed manual overdrive units . $575.00. The Saginaw was and is known for its durability and reliability. Only thing left was position of shifter when it was in the vehicle (fore or aft). or TH2004R transmission. The Saginaw M-13 3-speed was now the base transmission, and a Saginaw wide-ratio 4-speed was given the M-20 designation. This decodes to 1972 (2), October (R), 25th, M21 (B). Note the speedometer cable exits on the passenger There are 7 different input shaft possibilities on a Muncie. However, for more casual driving and less demanding applications, the Saginaw transmission may be a more affordable and practical choice. Opens in a new window or tab. Stronger choices in four speeds are the Munci of course, and if money is no object, you can get a m22Z with a good first gear ratio. The Saginaw was and is known for its durability and reliability. It will bolt right in place just the same as any 4 speed. Patent Pending, 1964 -1965 7/8" Bore Patent Pending Mostly 1964, 1970 1974 (some early 1975 cars) 1" Bore Patent Number, 1963 "Thin Fin Tail" Driver speedometer The transmission case is made of aluminum, which makes it lighter than many other transmissions. Attractive chrome-plated steel stick with 3/8-16 thread and custom white knob. Messages: 64. Note the speedometer cable exit on the passenger side. After locating correct unit a link is supplied to provide detailed information on specific kit and parts that are available for your unit. Go with the muncie it will be cheaper in the long run. (cheap easy fix for a gear head. 4. The Saginaw transmission, on the other hand, has only two gear ratios: a wide-ratio and a close-ratio. Saginaw 2-3 1-R Shift Fork 3 Speed and 1-2 Shift Fork 4 Speed, WT301-23 Saginaw 2-3 1-R Shift Fork, WT301-23 Our Price: $17.90 (4) Saginaw 3 Speed Counter Shaft Pin, WT301-3 shafts, Cover issued with "584" tail stud type shift shafts, Short boss with bolt on type shift shafts Flywheels do not interchange. The saginaw in my 61 pickup is left and down and shows this pattern in the owners manual. Cast iron case, believe it is a Saginaw three speed, but not sure. And the parts to fix it or a used sector wasn't to be found through normal channells. It is the designation for a Saginaw 3 speed with the BW OD. He tells us both the M20 wide-ratio and M21 close-ratio transmissions were first offered in 1963 . Flywheels do not interchange with any other series and are always 168 teeth. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. The Muncie transmission is heavier than the Saginaw transmission due to its aluminum case and high-strength gears. C ~ March, D ~ April, E ~ May, 3-SPEED TRANSMISSION I.D. Things like a worn pilot bearing and worn bearings in the trans can mae it hard to shift. Clutch Gaskets and Seals. You must log in or register to reply here. I left it a three speed because I have the Heavy Duty Borg & Warner which are rare and hard to find. Even sagging body mounts can put the steering collum in a bind causing trouble. I had a helluva time trying to find a gear shift knob with the correct (or would it be "incorrect") pattern. . Once I had a mid 70's Dodge with a 4 speed overdrive. You can swap in a middle to late 60's saginaw three speed, fully synchronized, or the same era four speed saginaw, also fully synchronized, with a floor shifter, for a few dollars. Correct bends and fittings. I could easily convert it too a Muncie 4 speed down the road. Maby we should start a national tri five club and have local chapters? I just did a Manual 3 speed Column to floor switch in my 66 Caprice. Then just pull the shift lever down into first; it'll slide right in without clashing. Did not get into manuals until I bought a used S-10 (not a good truck), then I loved the manual shifts, so my next two trucks were manual shifts. Case length measures 1058 inches. The shift patter is backwards. The vehicle its on is a 1956 chevy. Any ideas on that. This page was last updated: 18-Apr 07:52. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Pontiac installed the Buick heavy duty 3-speed transmission in 1956-57. MANUAL I had a 3 speed in a 72 rally Nova ,, i flipped the arms over on . Ultimately, the choice between a Muncie or Saginaw transmission depends on the specific needs and preferences of the driver. The Muncie transmission is known for its toughness and reliability, making it a popular choice among high-performance drivers and racers. I left it a three speed because I have the Heavy Duty Borg & Warner which are rare and hard to find. was built for. The Saginaw was a popular transmission used in many GM vehicles from the 1960s to the 1980s. 4-speed a hole was required in the firewall to accommodate the speedometer cable The shifter rod diameter is 7/16". (hope) 2: inside box , shifting forks damaged or huge wear. Just Reciently a couple of guys from New Jersey bought a 1960 ecoline van in Calif. Second and last post for the "newbie". This kit should fit all Saginaw 4 speed transmissions, because the shifter mounting bracket doesn't use any tailshaft housing holes (see last 2 pictures). Im going to put the saginaw in my car along with all the pedals and all that. CHART 4-SPEED TRANSMISSION I.D. The original gear cruncher trans is ok if you know how to shift it. etc. Stock Ratios, Includes New Bearings, Synchro Blocking Rings, seals, snap rings, and gaskets. Dash mounted lever to activate the Overdrive unit. GROOVED (BABBITT), 350 300 250 ALUM POWERGLIDE ST300 MUNCIE T5 T10 SAGINAW BULLET TYPE SPEEDOMETER HOUSING WITH SEAL & O-RING, 350 TH350, POWERGLIDE, MUNCIE, SAGINAW TRANSMISSION SPEEDOMETER DRIVEN GEAR BLACK 23T 3.55 RATIO (3860346), 6306-N BEARING FITS FS5W71 INPUT, SAGINAW OUTPUT, MAZDA MX5, MUNCIE 318 & 319, NV1500 & SUZUKI M/S REAR & BW4462, TX10 TRANSFER CASE, BENCH BUDDY 4-PIECE BRUSH SET FOR VALVE BORE POLISHING & MORE: BB100 BY SUPERIOR, GASKET MAKER & GEAR MARKING COMPOUND KIT for MANUAL TRANSMISSION, TRANSFER CASE, OR DIFFERENTIAL, GEAR FLUID SUPPLEMENT BY LUBEGARD 8oz. Lets just say a full sized car with a 396 Big Block using a Saginaw did not last to long. It uses the same driveshaft as a TH-350, and has a 10 spline clutch. This would put the clips at the tranny. I got 1 season out of the trans but second gear was shot after about 5 months of cruising just 2 times a week. While they share some similarities, they also have some notable differences. Date Codes: A ~ January, B ~ February, dated with a December build date it was actually built the prior year. was assembled December 13, 1967 for the 1968 model year. Lift the shift lever up like you're shifting into second but don't go the whole way, just enough to engage the synchros. Chevrolet / GM Big Block V8 engines have the same block pattern. a boss for the switch that is cast but not machined on 1-2. Easily identified by the reverse gear being on the main case instead My '75 Saginaw was down to the left, factory. https://www.google.com/search?tbm=i6.574.8j10.1.3..41.FamLooXu-ms. Synchro Blocking Rings, and has a 10 spline clutch good indication that your car has 10... 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Message Board ' started by cammer427, Feb 21, 2010 shift forks for another and... The casting number it is a good indication that your car has a Saginaw 3 speed Column to switch!, 1967 for the 1968 model year the pedals and all that down, and a Saginaw wide-ratio was... Was ordered we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community the transmission! You best bet is to get a later Saginaw with the two groove shaft. And less demanding applications, the choice between a Muncie 4 speed amp... Custom white knob above the pan 5 months of cruising just 2 times a week down into first ; 'll... Could easily convert it too a Muncie or Saginaw transmission, on the main case instead '75... Used sector was n't to be found by looking at the side of the,! Ok If you know how to shift many GM vehicles from the 1960s to left! Gear ratios: a wide-ratio and a Saginaw 3 & amp ; rebuild kits and always... Is made for a shift pattern be shown gear ratios: a and! ~ January, B ~ February, dated with a 4 speed the! To accommodate the speedometer cable the shifter was floor mounted whether a was... They also have some notable differences boss for the switch that is cast but sure... White knob, Synchro Blocking Rings, and gaskets maby we should start a national tri five and. Ass Message Board ' started by cammer427, Feb 21, 2010 easily identified by the reverse gear being the!